Yeah. Again, after Q&A. My Wife Has Had Sex Before Marriage!
Because sex is serious business.
Especially if it happens in India.
Especially if a woman is involved. ;)
And totally, if the woman is not married to the man.
Well we all (should) know these petty facts, but I felt the need to repeat them here as I was reminded of these once again (quite forcefully), after I wrote that piece.
As you can see, there are 46 comments on that piece up till now (thanks so much guys for taking out the time to share your views :)). Let’s just say not all of those friendly commenters did me the favour because they wanted to convey their unqualified support of my views (the piece contained none, but more about that later).
Photo by Sephiroty FiestaThese comments let me see how strongly the youth of this country feels about sex before marriage. That was quite an eye-opener. So much heated discussion started around this that I thought it’s time I gave it a little more prominence. In the form of actual posts, to be precise. So starting today I’d post my responses to some very interesting comments and questions about sex before marriage from time to time.
I’ll start with one of the very commonly raised questions:
It’s the girl’s fault to have not disclosed the facts about her past affair before marriage. Why are you silent on that?
“It’s the girl’s fault to have not disclosed the facts about her past affair before marriage.” Theoretically speaking you’re right. But knowing the practical reality of India, I think we need to go a bit deeper here before coming to a conclusion. If a prospective groom doesn’t enquire specifically about a girl’s virginity – and I’m sure you’d agree – the girl would hardly have any reason to take the initiative to convey this info to the guy. So in this case unless the guy had asked this question specifically, she had no way of knowing how particular he was about this issue.
You’re right, telling the truth is undoubtedly the right thing to do under all circumstances. But I believe if you expect anyone to tell you the truth about anything, you should provide them a safe environment for it (unless we’re talking about illegitimate activities, or activities which violate others’ rights etc.). If a person knows they might be compromising their own safety, security, mental peace etc. by telling the truth, is it really fair to hold them fully accountable for not telling the truth? (Don’t get so angry just as yet. Read on. :D)
Think of it from the girl’s perspective. With the vilification of premarital sex in the Indian society, would it have been safe for her to tell a prospective groom about her past? What if the guy announces it to her family and walks away from the relationship? What kind of consequences do you think the girl can expect, from her own family and the society? How easy do you think it would be for her family to get a guy for her subsequently?
Photo by The People Speak!Given the realities of our society, if a guy is too particular about his wife’s virginity pre-marriage, the onus lies on him to find out the truth without hurting the girl’s dignity. Here’s a suggestion for how you can go about it.
At a very initial stage, find a way to have a discussion with the girl alone. Tell her, “Marriage is a life-altering decision. I believe we should have a clear understanding with each other before such a decision is made. I’m sure you understand the gravity of the mistake that we would be committing if we take such an important decision on the basis of incomplete information. Given this context, I want you to know that there are certain things which are unacceptable to me when it comes to my future wife. I respect your privacy, hence I won’t ask you any questions about these aspects. I’ll just tell you what these factors are and request you to cancel the marriage from your side (telling you don’t like me) if any of this applies to you. The list goes:
1. She should not smoke/drink…
2. She should not be a non-vegetarian…
3. She should be a virgin at the time of marriage… ”
The list here is just an example (I’m by no means supporting or opposing the values espoused here). The point here is, you need to provide her a list instead of a single criterion like virginity, so that her privacy is protected. If she cancels the marriage you’d know she ticks one of your “strictly prohibited” boxes, without knowing which one.
I’m sure you understand, as one of the several prospective grooms the girl would meet in the process of her arranged marriage, you have no right to ask for private information like whether she’s a virgin. (If you don’t become her husband, you’re just another guy on the street, remember?) However, you have a right to cancel the marriage if she doesn’t satisfy your criteria (which, in this case, includes virginity). The only way to protect both her rights and yours is through mature and respectful dialogue, as suggested here.
What do you think guys? Bring on your views. I’m waiting. :)
I kind of feel like saying that I am sick of people even discussing this. It is very very sick that such issues should even be discussed! I would have much more liked if you had actually attacked this twisted psyche of these guys who want to marry a virgin woman. Its a psyche that needs to be attacked ruthlessly and should be treated at par with other social evils like casteism or such.
I would much more appreciate it if the woman in question actually just outright rejects the guy if she sees her virginity as being a criteria for the guy. No woman should put up with this level of objectification.
Its a very complex debate as to what all criteria of marriage can be ethically or morally justified but I somehow feel that this one is as unethical as caste and religion.
[I almost feel like saying that women should hit back by asking for the guy’s sexual history but then I am not a proponent of the eye-for-an-eye phiosophy.]
Well at a personal level, you know I agree with you completely Anirbit. :D
But everyone is entitled to their own preferences, and if it’s fair to decide “I won’t marry a girl who’s not beautiful”, or “I won’t marry a guy who’s shorter than 5’9”, I guess it’s fair to decide “I won’t marry a girl who’s not a virgin”. It’s their personal preference really, and we can’t judge it, as long as they’re not violating others’ rights as a result of that preference. Hence what’s unacceptable and should be discouraged at all costs is lifelong psychological torture meted out to the wife by the husband because he found out she was not a virgin at the time of marriage. The wife doesn’t deserve to be made to feel guilty about her past because there’s nothing to be guilty or proud of in it – she hasn’t done anything outside her rights by having sex with someone before marriage. However, the guy did have a right to know this aspect of a prospective bride before marriage, which would’ve enabled him to make a better decision and spared both the lives, may be. What I’ve described in this piece is how he should’ve proceeded before marriage (and which steps other men like him should take before marriage if they’re particular about their wives’ virginity) so as to avoid this situation.
Your comment is a breath of fresh air, as it provides the other side of the story, which was so far completely missing from the discussion. Thanks so much. :)
I think there is a difference between having some sick crieteria inside one’s head and actually asking someone about it. The guy has all the right to see the woman as a pound of flesh if he wants to BUT it should be considered as an extreme level of social indeceny if he asks the woman about her virginity (either directly or though some multiple choice list as you suggest)
The guy as much “right” to ask a woman about her virginity as much he has the right to whistle at a girl passing by on the road. If the later is considered socially obscene then the former should also be considered more so!
When someone decides to marry someone then there is a very clear and huge judgement being made. I would think that any right thinking woman would (and should!) judge that the guy is really really bad if he cares about her past sexual history.
We as a society need to set the moral compass right about it and NOT get thick skinned about the condemnable level of breach of decency happening by asking about it in however subtle and indirect ways it may be.
One’s personal life is always personal and no relationship equation can make one’s personal life automatically open to scrutiny by someone else whoever it may be.
Sorry but I disagree with you anirbit. If this thing really matter to the guy then there is nothing bad in making things clear( only if he himself is a virgin). Now let us think from the perspective of a guy for whom virginity is an issue. It may not be like that he never got an oppurtunity. I have seen many guys who think that they will really do it if given a chance but when they actually got a chance they stepped back (not because they were impotent :P ). Because they realized that they were not actually in love and didnt want to spoil the girl’s life. And who said that the girl’s past doesn’t matter in a marriage. It definitely matters because it defines how u are and your maturity level. If you were not mature and intelligent enough to understand the intentions of a bad guy(who just loved your body) and you just went forward with the physical connection then I dont think you can comment on the guy who thinks the other way round. I as a guy will also choose a virgin over a non-virgin given other qualities are same because Your past shows how focussed and self-constrained are you in life. Because I want to be the only special guy in her life because she will be for me. If I want to explore each and every thing( including sexuality) with my someone special. Whats wrong in that ?
I missed one thing. I didn’t say that a non-virgin girl doesn’t deserve a good guy. But the point is she should be emotionally virgin at the time of virgin. It should not be like I have seen a few times, ” we were together for 2 years, how can I forget him so easily “. Then I would advice the girl to first get over with it. Because if you still go on with the marriage then surely you are ruining the guy’s life. And for God sake please tell him the truth before marriage( he may reject :P ) because after all you would also like to spend your life with a guy who loves you even after knowing everything about your past. If you think that you will keep it as secret for life then obviously you are being selfish and cheating the guy because you will always have in mind that there is something about you which your husband may not have accepted. So please dont be selfish and marry the guy who understands you.
Asking about her past is not at all synonymous to seeing the girl as a pound of flesh and definitely it is not parallel to the idea of whistling on a passing girl. Everyone’s past matters, every type of past matters, sexual, financial, academical , criminal etc. Asking questions to your future spouse is not social indecency, it should be encouraged so to prevent any future glitches in marriage. Your actions define you and their results make your present.
There are some basic things which a person wants to know about their future life partner and has the right to know. Girls want to know about our finances, past relationships etc. and we the same. Asking these questions may seem derogatory by some as they are very ashamed of their past of their impact on someone else’s life. You yourself have said that marriage is huge judgement, then why make this judgement without proper information. Even the liberal west is on the “number”. You have liberal views on pre-martial sex so according to you the criteria is not about sex. I am into money and what if I say “No women should marry a man who earns less than a crore, he won’t be able to keep her happy.” it is impractical to set your criteria as the general criteria. And I fail to understand why is a guy “really really bad” if he asks about her sexual past. Asking is not bad, degrading someone else based on it is bad. Ask yourself will you marry a girl who has like 50 partners. You will have problems. Isn’t it better to ask clearly before marriage, if fine then marry or part ways and continue with your lives normally without bothering each other. It is not indecent to clear things before marriage, it is sensible.
Another point a guy should not ask, the girl herself should come forward, pick any guy going for an arrange marriage he thinks his to-be-bride is virgin same goes the other way. She has done something which is out of our societal norms so she should come forward. For ex, if I have a problem in my leg, it is my responsibility to clear things from my side as the girl has pre assumed I am completely fit.
You have said the girl should not marry is a guy is asking about her past sexual history, check the report by Hindustan Times by clicking my name: after youth and relationships pic 2nd para last line “64.4% would still want their spouse to be a virgin.” and this is a recent report on Aug.5 2013. Come to reality people, out of the rest 35.6%, a lot in their heart want a virgin. And this poll was conducted in all state capitals only, in cities people are much more liberal about all this, so if you do a lot of math for whole population, you get almost 92% people in India care about sexual past. So according to you genius either 92% of girls remain un-married or the 8% “liberal guys” get around 10000 wives each. Indian is “really really” bad country because nearly every guy is “really really” bad. And if you poll amongst India’s elite ( IITians, IIMs, NITians, AIIMS etc.) 99% are hell bent on virginity.
And another report says that people who argue that virginity should not matter is because they had a partner before who they left or the “relationship” didn’t work, so now their conscience pricks them because they know they have ruined their ex’s martial life.
Sulagna’s comment is neutral but you implying that it is a unfair, evil blah blah criteria is not right.
You have your views and preferences ( which are a puny minority ) I have mine ( the overwhelming majority ) but you have no right to undermine mine or brand them.
It is correct while completing my preferences I have no right to violate other persons right. Use the above method ( great way ) or private detectives ( fool proof way ) and if you have luck equal to a peanut and God hates you with passion you end up with a girl who is not a virgin and read articles of “letting go” for the rest of your miserable life. And especially is the girl is a feminist your better option is to run away.
And I sincerely hope that I have convinced Sulagna that wanting a virgin wife is NOT prerogative. Thinking that your future spouse will be cool with your sexual past IS prerogative.
i like your condition. i obey your condition
anirbit
i agree with you that guy asks sexual past about his would be wife or seek virgin wife, its kind of strange.
you say girls should not put up with any kind of objectification, but before saying that i want to ask a question from you.do you really believe that its only girl who has to objectified? this also goes with guys.
girls doesn’t choose guys who doesn’t have fat bank balance and looks and blah blah blah….
this is same for both sides.. so don’t jump on conclusions like this . guys are also not machine to work or ATM machine..
Yeah would be glad if my wife would have rejected me when I asked her about her virginity pre-marriage and she did hit me back about mine, me stupid honest idiot blurted everything like a lamb. Face it, girls aren’t cream of the crop either if guys are narrow minded. As for “objectification” guys are put up too, it is different criteria like education, earned money, family money, siblings money , total money, job, past job, bad habits, self reputation, family reputation , virginity heck my in-laws even got a private detective to verify all this. In modern arranged marriage scenario girls have equal say in everything, they too ask about our past etc. it isn’t acceptable for many girls too digest sexual history so they drop the proposal.
I understand human heart is the most deceitful for all things & very desperately ! Who know how bad & Good it is ? Lot of youngsters get in sex before marry in love. This is life & everything go in life but I understand that thing should not go who creates problem & issue in personal life.
Wow !! what an article. Thanks loveinIndia for sharing such a great way of asking “The Question”. Now I can guide my not that ‘lucky’ friends who are going ahead with arranged marriage, and give a serious concern over virginity of their would be partner.
It is a symbol of pride for guys to be with as many girls possible; and without giving a thought we stamp girls as sluts(and more) if they do the same. The irony is when that same guy lies about himself and demands a virgin girl as a life partner, just because there is no way to find out whether he is lying or not. This is sick.
Can’t thank you enough for sharing the alternative point of view Prerak. As you’ve rightly pointed out, we do have double standards when it comes to premarital virginity. In this particular case however the guy seems to genuinely love his wife, and was himself a virgin at the time of marriage (if his own testimony is anything to go by).
Would you mind posting the link/reality bytes comments for anirbit …
What you have written is a very good way, many guys just bluntly ask in a not at all peaceful environment about our virginity. But still there is a another factor which can compel us to lie. One can make mistakes we are human, but why should they be punished for it almost lifelong. Take case of a girl, it is not bad to be in a relationship is it? she may genuinely love a guy and they do it after being in a relationship for 2 years, but guy cheats on her afterwards and just dumps her after doing it for 2 times. She cannot use law to punish him as it is indirectly declaring her relationship to the world, she cannot seek help from her family, no source can help her without make her relationship public. She is utterly powerless, only thing she can do is cry. She has to drink the situation while the guy walks away. Now she meets a good well qualified guy. Her family is dying for her to get married so that they get her weight of their shoulders. The guy is good, and he asks her “the question” in way you described above and she rejects him. Almost every guy will ask her same thing. She tells truth to all. No one marries her. Family will start considering her as the ultimate burden, an object which is ruining their “reputation”. What can she do? Cry. She has to get married, the pressure to get married is increasing every day. Even though she has forgotten about the past guy totally, he is nothing more than a useless male pig. She will give her soul and life to her marriage. Never ever will the past guy even budge her love for her husband.
Family will start treating her in a bad way, family members are looked down because of her. If she tells truth almost no Indian me will marry her. If she gets in a relationship with someone else she will have to tell him the truth and there it is a Stop.
Just a total of 3-4 hours of intimacy almost 4 years back enough to ruin her lifetime ? And she just cries.
It’s a very, very poignant story, Ankita. True, in such cases women do get punished almost lifelong for something which was no fault of hers at all. (Her only fault – having premarital sex with a guy who SHE THOUGHT was going to marry her.) It’s a sad reality of our country.
But then again, overweight American girls find it much more difficult to get married than overweight Indian girls. So it’s a cultural bias really, for any society. However, what’s really sad for our society is that virginity is not merely a highly valued factor in the marriage market. It carries a huge moral connotation with it, which leads to this lifelong mental torture etc.
What is the proof that a **** like you won’t make any mistakes in future, Post marriage. And we make mistakes as a human, but some mistakes which are too big carry on girl. Now you will lie and and on 1 year anniversary of your marriage you will say “I love you ( Name of one heck of a unlucky poor guy )” at the same time you have the lie. Say the truth, if you remain unmarried you deserve to be unmarried. And if you lie, may you get crushed by some vehicle and your corpse rots for days.
Me the One heck of a unlucky guy, who is trapped by a another ****, and she won’t even divorce me, I am ready to give money too but she is like hell bent on ruining my life, I hate her.
And for Sulangna, pre martial sex carries for life, the girl lies about to her “life”-partner in a “lifetime” arrangement,so why is “life long” mental torture unfair ????????
Eagerly waiting for your comment on this one.
Pranjal
she won’t reply buddy because she is a ultra feminist who does not consider guys as equal as the girl..
don’t believe me. go to Charu gautam comments and read what Sulagna wrote in “Q&A. My Wife Has Had Sex Before Marriage. I’m Devastated. Help!”.. and yes read what Sulagna wrote in, i think, last comment.. you would know what she stands for..
Ankita Raj
you are saying as we guys are a**holes and only go for one thing and girls falls for love.. for girls like you, it’s one way track where you think of yourself. guys feelings doesn’t matter..
@ Ankita Raj
Your explanation doesn’t really justify your case. I can’t for the life of me, imagine a guy who invested his time and emotions in a relationship for two years – to dump a girl after he slept with her a handful of times, unless:
1) She is really passive, prudish, boring and uncreative in bed OR
2) He is VERY stupid and/or is really bad with women
If it is (1), it already makes a case for not marrying her. For a man, marriage entails entering into a legal contract where he locks his sexuality for a lifetime with one woman – it is too much of a cost to do that with a woman who is bad in bed in the first place.
If it is (2), it doesn’t technically rule her out as a wife-material in a traditional sense BUT it does speak poorly of her tastes in men and might make the prospective husband wonder if he is one of her ‘bad choices’ as well.
Personally I am not the marriage type and I don’t care a hoot about a woman’s sexual past, as long as she doesn’t have STD-friendly behaviour. (In fact, I prefer that a woman isn’t a virgin, since she is less likely to be a prude). Also, I personally believe that it is more ethical for a woman to not be a virgin if its because she enjoys sex too much to be one. Rather than your case – where the woman did it out of a sense of obligation towards her boyfriend and got dumped as a result (What a surprise! I’d be queasy with a woman too, if the only reason she slept with me was for some reason other than sex.)
____________________________________________________________________________________________
However, to play the devil’s advocate – imagine that I am a virgin man looking for virgin wife and you brought up your story to convince me to give you a shot. I wouldn’t marry you. Apart from 1 and 2 – it also holds a third implication. No man, unless he is zealously orthodox and religious is a virgin till marriage, out of choice. So if the man has no religious reasons to go for a virgin wife, he’d look like a fool marrying a woman who isn’t a virgin (while he never had that opportunity). It implies he isn’t attractive enough for the woman to sleep with him – but good enough to be the ‘provider husband’ once she played the field with more attractive men.
Coming to the subject of lying about your sexual past, decieving a man into thinking you are virgin, if he *cares* about it is pretty unethical – even from an amoral and liberal perspective. For one, his choice of not marrying a non-virgin woman does not violate any of your rights in any way. By decieving him and lying about your sexual past – you violate his right to choose who to marry AND the kind of wife he’d be comfortable with. This even goes for men who aren’t virgins*.
* a hypocritical choice no doubt, but then so are the hordes of women’s choices in a partner. Short women who want tall men, penniless women looking for moneyed men…yada yada.
Did you read the HC judgement “Couples who have premarital sex to be considered ‘married ”
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/couples-who-have-premarital-sex-to-be-considered-married-says-hc/article4824017.ece
Yeah…Well … It doesn’t bode well for any of us if that has to considered in its literal terms. However, there’s a bit of context here. I think in this particular case the lady was under the impression that they were married. They even had children. But eventually the guy left and it turned out that their marriage is not legally valid. I think the judgement basically tries to make sure people don’t get cheated in this manner, but has taken it too far. Such situations need to be handled on a case to case basis.
Thanks a lot for commenting. :)
“….Justice Karnan then went on to hold that if a man and a woman of marriageable age have a sexual relationship and the woman becomes pregnant, the couple will be treated as a husband and wife. Even when there is no pregnancy but strong documentary proof of sexual relationship, the couple will still be treated as married. If after having a sexual relationship the couple decides to separate, the husband can only marry another woman after a decree of divorce from the wife. Either part in such couples can approach a family court for declaration of valid marriage.”
“…Karnan today defended his judgment in a press release, saying it was misunderstood, and “not only for the purpose of giving relief to the victim woman, but also to maintain the cultural integrity of India”, as reported by Hindu.”
Ha ha ha …that’s totally unfortunate … and unbelievable. There’s this new wave of going backwards which is rocking our country right now… This is just another acheivement in its path. :(
I really don’t think one should ask this question, girls today will lie. Mostly they are do it just after 3-4 months with a guy, get dumped. This is very common with less-educated girls and village-to-city girls. Chances of a man accepting them as they are are very bleak. Without marriage girl is tortured from everywhere, after marriage only their married life is blasted, at least no pressure from society. They gain in one aspect. So they lie, if one asks then finds out it is very very bad experience. I have a girlfriend from my 2nd year Btech, we have been in relation for 5 years, we have good jobs, we live surprisingly in same city on our own yet we haven’t gone farther than kissing. It is her wish to save herself till our marriage and I respect it. Most do it under the blanket saying “it will take our love to new level” and that crap. Most guys feel that they have “conquered” after doing it. People want to be accepted by society and they don’t want to follow the rules of our society, this is not possible. I cannot ever forget my first kiss, so first time is burned into your memory with that person. So you cannot come out “clean” of an intimate relationship. I am not judging couples who do it before marriage but a lot of them break up, the guy is free it is girl who is at loss. And it is unfair to a virgin husband getting a non-virgin wife no matter what she says “I only love you now , he is past” etc. The girl is at fault. Take the case of west both spouses have partners before so they don’t have anything special in their intercourse, and in long term they divorce. In Q&A related to this topic someone has said that sex is minimum part of marriage which is not true, sexual attraction is infatuation which starts every relationship, there is nothing like love at first sight. What is fun in having sex with your wife/husband when you know someone has already done all the things with her/him. And people saying that they shouldn’t be punished lifelong for things of their past is not true, I strongly believe past directs our future and present it is a fact. And sex is a big thing in our Indian ways, which have been around for thousands of years and are working while the west way is around for 100 yrs or so and just look at their divorce rates. If you have sex to maintain your relationship it will end in a disaster.
First I completely agree that the girl has not done anything out of her rights by having premartial sex. But I completely disagree that girl should not take an initiative to reveal about her sexual past to her would be husband. Not only girls but even boys should reveal their sexual past to their would-be-bride, he/she has a right to know, as it affects the way your partner perceives you. Most guys and girls rightfully assume that their would be spouse is a virgin as it is a very strictly accepted and practiced belief cherished by our society and religion ( Hinduism and Muslims ). Also people indulging in pre martial sex are a minority. Some people even ask but if the girl wants to uphold her false pretense of being a virgin ( most want to ) as far as possible so she lies, she has her own reasons for them. Keeping your fiance in dark is not a golden way. I very strongly think that people who have pre martial sex should not opt for an arrange marriage whatsoever be the situation. In most of these marriages the “less experienced” partner feels the whole set of emotions associated with cheating in a very grave manner. After the initial and perhaps some subsequent waves of derogatory emotional and physical outbursts, the relation establishes a sort of equilibrium between the partners with no love in them, just forced compatibility perfected over prolonged periods and lifelong guilt for the “more experienced” partner. This is how these marriages “work”, many times such emotional trauma of parents end up having negative impacts on children who are also one of driving factors of these marriages. Even in cases when one partner forgives the other one it is not to the same mark, deep down they too also have a “What if”. I am sure no one wants to end up like this, divorce is a very “looked upon” thing which is practically not feasible. There are many social values attached with virginity particularly with a women “character”. But these problems are eliminated in a love marriage. However it is not entirely girls “fault” the boy also should have cleared his doubts, it is a bond between two people both should take effort to clear the air between them. Majority of these problems crop up because many times girls take steps which they regret for lifetime and the male centered thoughts in most boys. A boy may have sexual partners but still he wants a virgin wife, he wants his sister to be virgin, they don’t want to hear that their past girlfriend who they dumped was to someone’s sister, she to has to be someone’s wife. This male-centered thinking is unfortunately still nurtured by a large number of masses. Many people consider that a person who values virginity is a aristocratic being. Many surveys conducted among highly educated people show that many value virginity. It a personal criteria which cannot be judged by someone else. It is a sensitive issue which has many viewpoints each having its own worth. One should clear things before marriage.
in my case, wife had almost half dozen siblings in her joint family , and decisions were taken by her family head, then she must have the idea that her affair may not get approved. In such case, if she crossed limits what would i think of her. She just wanted to have sex, without thinking of consequences. She is a fool. It irritates you further when she tries to fool someone in front of you. It starts tiffs. You start blaming her including her parents. She hints her parents about ‘problems’. Her family appear weak and disturbed. You feel little guilty. If you ever try to watch porn and all you find is more negative thoughts and renewed anger. Now sex is problem for you. You work, health and finances are getting affected badly. She too starts avoiding you and does not smile any longer. You feel bad for both of you. That what happens in not so happy marriage. You try to improve things but return back to such situations, again and again. You resolve to ‘do something’ to fix problem as you love your wife. You tell her to confess and all she says is when the time is right and when she has full confindence in you. You feel guilty for not being able to keep it total secret and resent the nosy parents for overhearing your fights.
contd..
You also wonder if she trying to hide something which i cant digest…sex with tutor, cousin, autodriver etc ?
This is India not some west country where they go off having sex with anyone. She is your wife, you can be angry it is natural but such accusations tell the making of your dirty mind, I personally think she should leave someone like you. This shows clearly love is nothing more than sex to you. And you are posting such things on a site. It was wrong for her to just have sex but whatsoever be the case please don’t think like this.
shashank
ok so according to you wife would have sex with great looking guys or intelligent guys. its not like he is maniac its just that she is not telling him anything and delaying. she says she would tell when she would have full confidence in him, its like guy was lying all the time. and she is victim.
its just when you don’t know anything you tend to imagine. and yes after marriage he was thinking she is the right person for him she is honest and truthful. and when his made up image of hers got burn he tends to think what she did? that she is not telling him even after she get caught. and if you think from his point of view you would think like that. yes you would think its disgusting but may be this is the reason why she is delaying…
and what is it with its INDIA not some west country.. look around and you will know that everything is happening. its not that he is a reader of pervert stories on net. and one more thing i am not a sick minded person.. :)
Correct Anurag, completely agree with you
Even though I totally agree that virginity should not be associated with a girls “morals” however not disclosing your past in an arrange marriage is bad, almost every guy in country like India wants a virgin wife, it is a sad fact but I don’t blame the guys either they were raised in this atmosphere, as you sow so shall you reap. Girls indirectly lie to their partners and try to cover it up with most ridiculous ways, their fiance has every right to know about her past as it plays an elementary role in his decision to marry her. This is a very common situation in India, and more common with educated guys. Being an IITian i had never even flirted with a girl till my 2nd year of college. I had prepared for the exam from 9th standard and being an IIM-A alumni you would know the extreme competition and the dedication required to score in these exams, I didn’t even had time for my parents let alone a relationship. Most guys are married to girls who are less educated then them, earn less. The girls had time for relationships, so they had many and it was not wrong for them. But at the time of marriage like most girl families they would rank the prospective grooms according to their money and I would probably have a high rank. The girl will lie about her sexual past it is sure, I was fixed to a “good” Indian girl and I asked her the “question” she lied. I still bless my friend who had literally saved my life, he through a long chain of friends knew a guy who was her bf. I searched and found she had gone under hymenoplasty surgery! I asked her again in calm manner she pretended like she had never even held a guy’s hand acting like while I had the copy of her surgery bill in my pocket. I backed of without telling anything to her family or her.
IN THE NAME OF “MODERNIZATION” INDIA HAS THE WORST OF BOTH WORLDS, in west girls don’t start relationships on lies. Girls in India have sex and lie and drop the bomb later on. If we compare a “good” Indian girl with a prostitute, both had sex but the “good” girl is lying at least the prostitute is truthful. I am married to my first and only gf in US, she had 2 partners before me and I knew the facts right from the beginning, I would prefer her over any girl who has researched all sorts of crappy ways to fool me and at the same time claim to love me. Another context which is not relevant to the topic but very shameful for the “MODERN INDIA” like west nuclear families have sprung up in India, parents often live alone, but in west there are high class old-age homes for old, people use a good portion of their assets and get into these homes while in India most children leave their parents to themselves occasionally checking on them and come running like dogs for their assets when they die.
Either refrain from pre-martial sex most Indian guys end up regretting it at some point of their life, if you do it then face it but please don’t lie to someone under pretext that it is “past” and it was a “mistake”, “oh I regret it”,”I love only you” etc., tell the truth your future spouse, he/she deserves to know about you as much as you deserve to know about his/her past. And as Shrey has said above if you had pre martial sex Donot have arrange marriage, most end up with one of them ending up in Q&A like the one on this site, how can they trust who someone who lied to them about a fact which would have completely alter their view towards them. Indian society should start accepting divorces it will release many “trapped” partners.
Asking a “good” Indian girl won’t help either, she will lie.
I oppose that girl should not take initiative to tell about her past but boys too should have a more mature view on the subject. I am an IITian and I prepared for the exam right form my 10th standard and being an IIM alumni I am sure you know the dedication and hard work required to pass these exams. I didn’t had time for my parents in school let alone a gf. In IIT’s too the ratio was absurd 20 girls to 200 boys, I hadn’t even flirted with a girl till my 3rd year. In Indian arranged marriage system I would have been married to a less educated, less earning girl who had time for relationships, she had her fun and at the time of marriage her family like most would rank the prospective grooms on their money. I met with a “good” Indian girl, I asked her about past relationships even though I was cool with bf’s but I wanted to know her, and she told me that she didn’t had any. A friend of mine ( who I will be eternally grateful ) through a long chain of friends told me about a guy who was her bf. I found out and got to know that she had undergone hymenoplasty, I asked her again and again she acted all shy like she hadn’t even held anyone’s hand while I had the copy of her hospital bill in my pocket, I dropped out.
Currently I am married to my first and only gf in US, she had partners before me but she told me truth, she didn’t drop any “bomb” after out marriage.
In the name of “modernization” INDIA HAS THE WORST OF BOTH WORLDS, here girls have sex etc. before marriage and lie to their future husbands and shamelessly continue to lie while expecting love from them. Even if they fail they are covered, guy cannot divorce her. If you google “will my husband know that i am not virgin” you get a whole set of links for numerous ways to lie to your “life-partner” written by women who are proud in keeping up their lie to the man they think they “love”, all Indian. If you search for surgery clinic you have link to hymenoplasty “http://www.drtejinderbhatti.com/hymenoplasty”.
Why do anything that you will have to lie about in future to you spouse ?
You said that according to “practical reality” of India girl will not tell anything about her past willingly. Well according to same “reality” it is pre assumed that girl is a virgin, if she has done something opposite to that she should tell the truth. Is this Indian women.
I am torn on the issue on, one hand you have Indian arranged marriages which were not for love just compatibility. Sex before marriage is a western concept, if we embrace this it is accepting their whole system and chucking out ours. It sounds great from distance that you have a lot of freedom, you marry only for love. But there is a bad side to it to, this can be experienced only if you live there, I was 22 when I was transferred to NYC, i had never had any gf in India before as I was drowned in my studies, and I was quite shy so my Canadian friend suggested me some casual sex sites, I thought they were farce but I signed up and within a month I had lost my virginity to a 29 year old married women, she thought as I was Asian I had brought “variety”. I was ashamed but she was cool with it, she covered up things so well like a professional, she used prepaid phone, online chat in incognito mode, ip bouncer, change of undergarments, a new prepaid phone for me with no. showing her best friends town. She said she the “7 year itch in marriage”. I stopped using the site. The site was full of men and women a big chunk was married. The situation is very bad there, I made a gf ( normally ) and she casually told me she has had sex with 24 guys till now, a lot of threesomes in her college etc. Moral values, family values are faded to nothingness. You can literally go to a bar and if you are a charmer ( like my friend ) you can really have a one night stand !!. In department of sex, I have to sat Americans are not better than animals, which is being embraced by India although a much uglier version. Posts above are very true.
It is such a trivial issue to discuss in the 21st century, one has right on his body and no one else, every person should have the right to have sex with anyone they want. And guys should be more considered on present and future which is our doing not at past which is already done and sealed. And it is girl’s decision to tell about her past.
I wish our society was that tolerant and forgiving NYZ. :(
Right, my finance is from India too, I am his first partner, he is my 4th but he is not at all like these guys, he accepts my past, why should it matter anyway. I love him so much now that really I don’t even remember what I did with guys before him. Indian guys are really sick on it, one of his friend even mockingly teased him about my past, he just joked it and said “Everyone makes mistakes, it is not the number of mistakes but what you learn from them matters, and Suzi definitely has learned.” He gets grumpy though when the talk turns up. Charu is right, you guys are her husbands not her master or something like that, behave like one. Instead of babbling over your wife’s past, try to work on your present and future. Let bygones be bygones.
In my opinion:-
1. Its not wrong nor right to have sex before marriage – for the girl or for the guy. One’s lifes – one’s way of living.
2. Morality is a just a trend of current majority. Something that was immoral 10 years back , is moral now. Things that are immoral today , might become moral in next 10 years.
So, a girl having sex before marraige, is as moral as the majority believes it to be.
Its very simple.
1. Majority of indian guys dont like their wives having sex with other guys. Forget about the so called “good guys” , who stupidly choose to “save” their first time for their wives. The guys who have sex before marriage , is more determined to have a virgin wife ( as per conversations with the people I have known )
2. I believe Sex and love are two different things. Being in love have nothing to do with sex. Kids “fall in love” when they are 12 – 14 year old. Are they supposed to have sex – forget morally , just biologically ? One can say that kids dont know love – that is only crush. But then who is to say that a 20 year old know love ? ……. In love does not mean that you have to have sex.
3. Girls know its socially not acceptable to have sex before marriage. ‘Its sad’ they say. May be it is – but facing the facts – this is what is true , its not socially acceptable.
Now, Girls know that its not socially acceptable to have sex before marraige, her parents would not approve of it and that their future husband will most probably hate it.
Now when she defies these facts and have sex anyway , she has chosen to go against them.
All is well until now. Nobody says you have to follow social rules. Your life, your choices.
But, now when she wants to get arranged marriage , she wants to fit in the society. Does not want to “bring shame” to her parents in front of the society.
So, when the topic of boyfriends/sex comes up, she lies to her future husband.
One man , that is gonna be there by your side for the rest of your life – you lie to that person. Fear of society did not stop you having from having sex – because you were in love. But fear of society makes you believe that you can lie to this person.
The man gets angry. The girl, and the educated blogger class blames the man for being old – fashioned.
Story of a broken marriage begins …….
My view :-
Your life , you choices. But why lie and push that choices on another guy ? If you wanna go against the society , and have sex – please do – but have the courage to stand against this society too. Dont hide behind the fear of society and lie – or as the blogger says – expect the guy to give you “safe environment” . Be who you are and stand by it Period
Thanks a lot for taking the time to share your views in so much detail, Anon. :)
I’d just like to point out a tiny factual mistake – “But, now when she wants to get arranged marriage…” This part isn’t factually correct. I get literally 100s of comments and counselling requests from girls and boys everyday telling me how much pressure their parents are putting on them to break up with their bf/gf and agree to have an “arranged marriage” with a random guy/girl of their parents’ choice. The pressure tactics range from threatening to commit suicide to threatening to lodge a police complaint against the girl’s bf accusing him of harassing the girl, to confiscating cell phones/computers etc. and locking up the daughter at home. Please go through the publicly available comments on these posts to get an idea:
http://www.loveinindia.co.in/help-my-parents-are-not-agreeing-to-my-marriage/
http://www.loveinindia.co.in/convince-parents-love-marriage/
Hence we don’t know if in this case the girl wanted to have an arranged marriage at all. If anecdotal evidence is anything to go by, in all probability, she never did. She might have not wanted to marry her current husband at all. She might have wanted to marry the guy she had had sex with (assuming he was her boyfriend). We don’t know. But we definitely do know that in our society, having an arranged marriage with a guy can never be taken as sufficient evidence of doing so voluntarily.
I agree with you completely – you’re free to go against popular societal norms, but in that case you shouldn’t seek acceptance of the majority. I believe the girl wouldn’t have, if she had the choice. But the tragedy in India is that we don’t believe in individual freedom, and hence our actions don’t always reflect our choices.
factual mistake accepted , and understood :)
But , i am just wondering , aren’t you contradicting your point as mentioned in blog ? If a girl actually has no choice , then she also wont be able to cancel marriage based on the guy’s checklist. And telling the truth is anyways not a “easy” choice knowing the practical reality of India . So, even if guy tells the girl his checklist , what choice do the girl have instead of lying ?
Anyway, the viewpoint I wanted to convey was :-
3. Fact :- The ‘Groom’ is actually the last person in this series of event.
Viewpoint :- Instead of telling him intelligent and mature ways to choose his bride , or telling him to understand how tough it is on girls, we should instead look upon events happening up in the chain
2. Fact :-The girl knows her parent the best.
View :- If she knows them , and the society – and accepted them and her lack of choice – then she should follow life as proposed by them – and not have sex ( or even fall in love ) .
Fact :- I know multiple , educated and well to do guys from Haryana /UP villages , who bluntly and calmly tell girls before starting a relationship that “I cant fall in love or marry you – because my parents would kill both of us” . Now that is what I call acceptance of having no choice.
View :- Instead of telling guys to understand the girl’s situation , tell girls to understand their own first. You can not have both , freedom of having sex when it comes to love and excuse of parental / social pressure when it comes to marriage.
1. Fact :- The parents , who I would like to believe love their children but still , as you pointed out, ‘force’ the girl to marry as per their choice for some reason – which I dont know.
View :- May be we should ask these parent why they feel this is the best choice for them and “if they are wrong in doing so” educate them.
TLDR
The ‘arranged’ guy, who is looking for his life partner is the last in this chain , and comes in the picture when all has already happened. In my opinion , do not tell him to be smarter to deal with these “forced” lies. When people lie, they always have a reason and a way to lie. No amount of smartness or maturity, on guys part, can guarantee that the girl wont lie.
Even if you have to start with bottom in the chainlist – i would suggest that you start with telling girls to take responsibility for their actions , and accept whatever consequences that follow them – and deal with them with confidence , strength and maturity.
PS: The same responsibility lecture, applies for guys too :)
You’re absolutely right – the best thing would be for people to be able to choose what they want to do with their lives. Take responsibility for their actions, as you said.
And yes, I agree that there’s never any guarantee that you’ll find out the truth about a girl’s virginity before an arranged marriage. In an arranged marriage process NO ONE has ANY guarantee that all info provided by the other party is accurate. Sometime back I received an email from a girl who got arranged married to a guy thinking he’s a graduate, only to discover he’s only passed high school and has earned a diploma through correspondence thereafter. The girl herself is highly educated and the primary breadwinner of the family now.
I’m sure you have heard lots of stories of both men and women discovering horrific misrepresentations after an arranged marriage. Disability, alcoholism, existing bf/gf, non-existing job are only a few examples. That’s always a risk that you take with a traditional arranged marriage. Making a decision that will affect your entire life (marriage) based on a few meetings of course has its own risks which one has to be prepared to take if one chooses to marry this way.
Talking about marriage and risks, here’s something about how to make a good decision on marriage: http://www.loveinindia.co.in/4-golden-rules-successful-marriage/ :)
AGuy
thank you for writing the points that i wanted to say but faced difficulty. i said the same thing on other page but @sulgana wasn’t ready to accept. she was easily and very conveniently suggesting the idea of “letting go” and a “loveless and suffocating marriage”.
i wondered that a counselor was advising people to be in suffocating marriage then bat for divorce or “letting go” principle. she also suggested how to avoid making children in these marriages and think about career as preferred solution..
i hope sulgana would not modify this comment.. :)
“Risk” !! Ok, if you have to put arranged marriage as a risk then I would suggest that if you indeed have to give advice to guys , regarding this virginity issue – tell guys two simple facts
1. Girl will have sex if she wants to before marriage. No social/parental pressure can stop her from doing so. And they have all the right to do so, just like you have. You chose not to use this right, it is your choice – not the girl’s. Don’t look for reasons why you did not have sex , and why she did ( love etc etc )
2. HUMANS LIE – for whatever reasons they might have for justification, fact is Humans Lie. Your parents, your best friends, your teachers and you yourself lie. Accept this truth and that, that the stranger Girl – you are going to meet for choosing as your life long companion – will most probably also lie about her virginity .For – social image , parental pressures , fear of losing a good guy etc etc. Their is no point in asking any questions or presenting her with your checklist.
When you are dealing with facts, its easier to “let it go” later on ( as you would suggest to many guys like http://www.loveinindia.co.in/wife-sex-before-marriage/ )
Seriously, if you really believe that girls don’t have any choice when it comes to marriage , tell guys that girls will lie if they need to. Why makes things complicated with mature discussions or making guys understand the reasons for lying or any thing else ?
I believe that if you convey this simple truth to guys, you would help them a lot – instead of the checklist post above.
Thanks for you blog and your comments . I enjoyed reading your viewpoints and the way you presented them :)
PS: I am not justifying lies or that the guys/girls should lie. I am just saying Humans do lie , and they always have their reasons for it. Accept this fact, don’t look for reasons, and then ‘may be’ you can have a better arranged marriage.
So according to you one should lie about things like this.
If you get into arranged marriage thing you will find that most of girls parents want a copy of our degrees, job certificate stating our income. They get their proofs we don’t lie then why should girls.
If girls lie and we have “mystery” why not same thing on other side, we won’t tell anything about us just show our face and ask “Yes or No” after being chained to us for whole life they will find out about us. Really great logic.
And humans lie, same way humans kill, humans steal, humans rape etc. that means if anything happens to us, just “let-go”.
Indian judiciary really sucks in matters like these, if guy lies about his finances the girl will go crying to her parents, who will file case, judge will be a feminist like our constitution and before you know you have all charges against you. There is nothing wrong till here.
But if girl lies, what can the guy do except listening to her bickers “Forget everything, we will make a great future..” etc. and read online. If he goes to court they will divorce only if he has found out initially or else you are stuck up, or give up your hard earned money.
Giving half share of finances is another absurdity, I earn a fixed sum in my job before marriage and after marriage I earn the same, my wife doesn’t work even if she then take yours and get out, If I divorce her why do I have to give half of my money, she had absolutely no contribution in improving my finances whatsoever.
My opinion like most here is do whatever you want but have some self-respect and don’t lie about yourself. Now many say like one should not be punished for one mistake lifetime, things like sex are not reversible, you carry it with yourself for whole life, so does its consequences, its the play of nature. Like you work hard for exams, you have to sacrifice many things in my case my perfect eyesight. But you get its reward to. I carry the both And really the hard stone carved fact is that Indian boys want a virgin.
Many people are also quoting about the open mindedness of west, yep it is true that guys don’t expect a virgin, part of the reason they themselves aren’t.
Secondly even there we have the “number” thing. A guy may accept a girl with number between like 0 to 30 but above that they to start complications. And really if you bring a guy from there who has 10 partners and a girl who has like 100 partners, no way guy is going to marry her. Its the same thing with less “sex” involved.
Priyanshu,
I did not say “one should lie about things like this”. I said, people will lie, and you are just being unrealistic , if you believe people will not.
As you said, humans kill, steal and rape. I am not saying they should do all these – I am just saying , you should be aware that they do do all this.
When you know that people steal, would you leave your home with doors unlocked ? Knowing is the first step for protecting yourself.
“that means if anything happens to us, just “let-go”.” – “Let-go” does not means that you would consider a wrong demeanor – right, “let-go” means that the wrong demeanor wont create emotional problems for you.
I agree with you over many points that you raised , like -“Indian judiciary really sucks in matters like these” , “things like sex are not reversible,” , “really the hard stone carved fact is that Indian boys want a virgin.” , “Many people are also quoting about the open mindedness of west, yep it is true that guys don’t expect a virgin, part of the reason they themselves aren’t.” I whole heartedly agree with you on these points.
Now, does it change the fact that the girl would still lie? Thats all I am saying.
When a guy goes for arranged marriage – accept the fact that the girl will lie . Now what do you do after knowing this fact – is upto you .
Author feels that an “indirect hint” with checklist will help. I believe that there is ‘absolutely nothing’ that will help. If a girl has to lie, she will lie.
Priyanshu, what would you suggest a guy should do to protect his interests when he knows that the girl will lie ?
Yes if you get in such a situation letting go is the only way, you are cornered by that selfish woman. But this sounds good in theory, practically to make things work there are a lot of factors involved, utmost being the behavior of wife and secondly her ex. I have the same situation, the points I mentioned above are from my personal experience. I found out just after a month of our marriage. The situation was she had broken up with him 4 months before our marriage, so obviously her ex was still strong for her and he hates me with passion. He would turn up at our house a lot of times on pretext of office work thing. I was already distraught over the whole lying thing and he just added to my woes. I tried to let go as I had figured letting go was my only option. Even though she always discouraged him, he just wanted to blow our marriage and was able to. He would always try to strike a conversation with her etc. I resigned to my black fate, and like lot of victims around our country. I admit that she tried her best but things were too much for me and her. Her ex has moved to a different city but has burned up my life. Only thing that keeps me sane is my job, I took up a post which involved a lot of foreign travel it helps me to keep my mind of these things periodically, our sex life is zero. But I have never cheated on her. I sometimes think and try to work out again but it bounce back quickly.
Really even the ex is not as persistent as in our case, it is not possible to make a happy marriage out of such situation. You will always feel bad, curse your fate and the women you are bound to for life.
I always feel, Why did it happen to me? Why couldn’t I get a normal girl and a happy marriage ? Almost 99% of girls are virgin Why did I have to get one from the 1%? I almost cry when I see the couple pics of my friends with their wives happy and smiling when I am sitting here.
Many would say it is my self-induced situation but really things cannot work out.
I want to say that girls should not lie about this, many would say that if she continues to tell truth no one will marry her, her life will be ruined but by lying she is not only ruining her but also someone else’s life.
As for the answer to your question A guy, the guy should hire private detectives, they are really really good, they even are able to tell about school relationships, they are a little expensive but great. The person who is being spied on never knows, they even get records of any serious medical injury or report of hymenoplasty. They take 2-3 months but get it all. Use them get the info, if you want to marry, burn all those reports and the detective will walk away. Privacy is guaranteed. I feel the biggest mistake of my life was not to hire them a few months earlier.
priyanshu
you said that she tried her best to discourage his ex and broke up with him four months ago. still you are angry from her. her past is her, its not yours. you have no right upon her past, her friends.. you are not even entitled to stop her from being friends with her ex. you don’t own her body even..
there is wrong perception among guys that they own their wives, this needed to be corrected.
and yes you are starving her from having sex, keeping away from yourself, not giving love that she deserve. you are a disgusting selfish man who doesn’t think beyond sex and his wife’s body.
just think for a moment how relived she will be when you will forget the past and accept her as a girl whom you married. reciprocate her love and affection, value her sacrifice that she made by leaving her parental home to make your house a home..
grow up please time is running fast. say sorry to her for whatever pain you inflicted upon her and pray that god forgive you for the sin you committed..
Firstly I am NOT a person with zero sex drive, nor my wife ( as far as I know ) is a super estrogen charged women. If you have had sex then I am sure you know how high is the sex drive initially after having sex, my wife has passed her high time but I was still in that period.
I agree with your points that I don’t own my wife’s body, nor in any way she is my property and her past is hers and so her friends. I have never discouraged her from meeting any of her friends except “him”. She should have stayed away from him at least for 3-4 months after I found out. I really hurts when you find the truth, you cancel your dream honeymoon trip. And it kills when you try to let go, try to make things work, convince your boss to give a half day in lieu you will work overnight, buy flowers for her and when you come home you find her ex sitting there, it kills. As her husband she could have at least avoid one person for me who troubles me.
I am not a “open minded” person like a westerner but that’s how I am.
And to enlightening your feminist brain, I am NOT “a disgusting selfish man”. She was selfish to lie to me before marriage, she is “disgusting” according to our society.
You are implying that I keep her in chains while I f**k some girl and I have forced her to marry me, but obviously this is not the case.
She left her parents home with consent, and ( this is may sound money minded ) my home is much much better than her parents home, she doesn’t have to do any work, I am not choosy about food or anything, I am fine with anything edible for food etc.
As I have mentioned before, I travel a lot to foreign countries, I can very easily get a prostitute for my trips and she won’t know a thing but I am still honest with her. My brain is no hard drive from where I can just “delete” things. What do you think you idiot, I love my current life ?
You cannot imagine the life I would have given her had things would have been normal. Like any normal human being I too want sex but I am not some moral-less sex driven, selfish human being.
And lady as far as I know it is not a sin to express your anger in a civilized way to your spouse over a issue. Why don’t you think for a moment how happy would I be, if we could have been a normal couple. And if I am by some miracle able to get over her past, I will gladly apologize to her, I have no shame in apologizing.
Now our marriage is in a stage from where I don’t think it can be restored, it is now fixed. I admit now I cannot just forgive everything.
I have now concluded that God wanted us to have a useless marriage for rest of our lives full of stress. And me dying as a person who can count the number of his sexual encounters on his fingers. And people like you blame me for it all.
” how high is the sex drive initially after having sex, my wife has passed her high time but I was still in that period.” so you are saying that she is not sex starved bcoz she had her fun before. so people doesn’t need sex after a while.. !!! this shows how ignorant you are, shows irresponsible behavior of yours. clearly you are keeping her unsatisfied and thinks that you are a saint since you are not having sex..
when would you understand she is your responsibility?
you accept that it would be wrong if you discourage her to meet her friends. if this is the case then why you expect her to not to meet her ex, he is the part of her life and never going to change. discouraging her to meet her ex is interference in her private life. and also you are giving unnecessary importance to him and his relationship with your wife. you are the one who is not ready to accept the present.
yeah you are not a open minded person and it shows in your post. seems like you still live in dark age. if this is the case then you should have pick your wife from that era..
i am not a feminist, just a normal girl. don’t need to be a feminist to identify difference between right and wrong..
she lied before marriage and it was past. you are dragging her past that is of no use.. accept her as she is , with her pre martial sexual past, with her friends(that includes her ex too), with her imperfection.
and why are you coming with society in your opinion in your anger. looks like you are seeking excuses.
i am not saying that you forced her to marry, just saying you married her. so it’s your duty to keep her happy..
she left her parents home with consent to make your house a home, you need to understand that. it doesn’t matter if she had less luxury at her home. its your job to provide her a luxurious life, you are not doing something special, husbands are supposed to do that, its your job.
so you are saying you can easily get a girl and also maybe suggesting that she can’t get a guy. if you can get girls then she can also get partners. but she is choosing not to do so. you should be grateful that you got a loyal wife who cares a lot about you.
your posts suggests that you choose to lead a miserable life and also forcing your own wife. so yes you are stupid and cruel, no doubt about that..
“you are not some moral less sex driven selfish human being “. shows that you doesn’t respect neither your wife nor her decisions. she was in love and sex was the result. she made the love with the guy whom she loved, what is wrong with that. actually you know that nothing is wrong with that, but still you are cribbing. bcz you didn’t get opportunity in your non married life. you must be grateful to your wife for love she gives to you, coz you will not get that from whores. yeah you can get AIDS and STD…
its not the right thing to express anger to your spouse over her past. it’s just craziness..
and YES FORGET THOSE YEARS WHICH YOU SPENT WITHOUT GIRLS, NOW THAT YOU HAVE A GIRL..
your posts shows that how sexually frustrated you are, get over it. if not for your wife then for yourself.
Well you just said earlier in article my wife has had sex before marriage
“I WOULD AGAIN SAY THERE IS NOTHING WRONG AND NOTHING RIGHT.. NOTHING IS MORAL AND IMMORAL.. TRUTH AND LIES ARE NONSENSE. ONLY YOUR OWN CONVENIENCE AND GOOD IS WHAT SHOULD MATTERS FOR YOU LIKE EVERYONE ELSE…”
and here you are saying
“i am not a feminist, just a normal girl. don’t need to be a feminist to identify difference between right and wrong..” firstly is there anything right or wrong for you or you are just a selfish person and please use some brain, you are contradicting yourself.
If I follow your advice on the first para, I should get my lawyers and detectives make a solid case for me, then when I am prepared take her to her parents house and announce it to whole society that she is slut etc. with all proofs and send her divorce papers. Trust me I will get another girl for me in our arai ge marriage system, money is big. But her marriage….Its a easy guess or perhaps her siblings marriage might get affected too…
Should I go for it, after all its me following your advice
Back to the thing, I didn’t said that she no more needs sex but I was harder for me to resist. Also you saying that she is loyal to me excuse me we are MARRIED, it is part of the marriage to be loyal and works on both sides, she isn’t doing a great sacrifice by being loyal towards me. It was my criteria that she shouldn’t have had sex before marriage which I presented to her, she had her criteria I had tobe financially settled, I did my part and if I get angry over her part its my fault!!
priyanshu
that piece of advice was for archie. you should read what happened with archie, what her husband did with her. it was fair to advice her that(she is in different situation). so yeah i am contradicting myself here.
do you really think that there are people on this earth who is not a hypocrite, who doesn’t have double standards or contradict himself/herself?? if there are name one, leave alone mortals even gods contradicts themselves, they do have double standards but preach something else to us..
you are here hell bent to destroy a marriage a family so i advice you something else. whereas i told archie to do something else. it’s not wrong, contradicting myself is not wrong. you and archie’s husband are culprits here so i advice you guys so you take sane decisions hopefully.
i know after reading this comment of mine you will get annoyed by double standard of mine. but tell me one thing is this not what counselor are supposed to say(i am not saying i am expert). read sulagna’s comments you would know how bias she is. she is a hypocrite have double standards. but this is what she should do to save a family/marriage which can be saved. read her different case comments you would know(i am assuming her as an expert). even counselor do this nothing is shocking in that.
Aguy comments were more balanced and appropriate. he was gender neutral.
and if you say that i am contradicting myself, don’t you think that you are contradicting yourself too by saying that your love for your wife is losing day by day. what happened that now she has become so unworthy? she just had sex before marriage, doesn’t make her culprit. and if she didn’t tell you then okay it’s bad. but why are you taking it so seriously? this lie was for the thing which happened before marriage. may be she didn’t tell you because she wanted to be with you, maybe she was afraid. it was for greater good.
priyanshu
what if she had sex before marriage, she did it before marriage. whatever she did before marriage is not important now that she is devoted to you. it can be a serious intimate relationship or one night stand. may be she left him for the financial security/looks/intelligence you offered to her. may be she is a total a##ho%$ or may be her boyfriend cheated on her, let’s face it reasons can be anyone. but what are you going to do now. are you going to blow your marriage for sexual past of your wife which is non existent now. you are the only one who can take decisions now. be smart and clear..
charu
oh my god!! you are a extreme feminist. and you don’t view the opposite gender as same as yours.
i am surprise and please to know that you accept that you are gender-bias and doesn’t value right and wrong.
priyanshu
i truly believe that a cheater is always a cheater. so you should go for divorce as you said it would be easy for you. she didn’t care for you then why would you. she broke up with her bf just five months ago and was on friendly terms with him. so it make sense that she was not ready to marry with her love may be for materialistic reason. she is not a victim here like every girl portrayed by sulagna. but if you wanna try then that would be a good option.
but i would suggest that don’t be in a loveless and suffocating marriage like almost everyone is deciding to stay with(seeing people writing on this blog here). if you want to choose to be with her then you must start from beginning. you have to give her respect and dignity and if you are ready to forgive her for all then you should tread this path otherwise choose to divorce.
She had her criteria of me being financially good but what of my criteria if she being virgin? If a girl posts that her husband lied to her about his finances then all you feminists will gun down the husband, but when I speak about my wife you are gunning me, don’t support me but at least don’t oppose me you bunch of idiots. Women say they don’t want double standards, like girls being a virgin and boys not but they want double standards in other things. Logic worthy of a donkey.
And I don’t think myself some saint, I am highly educated engineer not some saint. It is my duty to keep her happy what about my happiness, sorry to say I am not some soap opera character who just gives happiness to others while being sad himself. And about the slut part, an average American by Indian standards is a whore. Have you ever been to Thailand there the massage girls are ready to ***** for money like numerous places.
I saved myself for my marriage and I wanted my wife to be same. While I presented my past file, she hid hers. As for the loyalty part I don’t care if she goes to some other guy because I want to get rid of her now. But she won’t because she knows that she is at fault, if our families ask why we want a divorce and I tell the truth, no one will blame me because I am not wrong, even the feminist judge will have to pass judgement in my favor.
She is a coward, she cannot stand up for her actions, that is why she is loyal to me.
priyanshu
everyone has a criteria so do she. her criteria of you being financially sound was logical and right but your criteria of her being virgin is sick. this doesn’t fit to be in a criteria.
she is doing her best to make your life happy. you can not say that it’s only you who are taking care of everything. actually you think you are a saint..
it’s about our choices that we make. if you didn’t have the chance to have sex before marriage then it’s not her fault. she had the opportunity and she made the most of it, that’s it. but it was before marriage so you can not make a hue and cry over it. she hid her past for greater good and because she knew that you are not man enough.. comes from a conservative family.
“coward” can describe you as you are so furious over this trivial issue. and you also cheated on your wife. compare yourself with your wife now..
I get feel so much frustrated after reading about pvt. detectives, I just want to break something, why couldn’t this page exist 2 years before, why ?
I would be a much more happy person if I knew about them. By the way I still just know that my ***** wife was not virgin but would you mind writing the name of agency you contacted, no problem with cash, ( I can always sell my wife, maybe I will get a penny or two ;) just Joking.
And as you have said Aguy , girl will lie because of parental image, what image the guy will get the truth today, tomorrow, next year, 10 years later, Heck I know a case when guy got to know after 12 years, he had 2 children, imagine the crash, you love someone for 12 years while the other person was just pretending to love you, they didn’t even have a pinch of self respect or decency to at least take pity on the guy and tell him and after getting the truth, believe me respect is in the trash replaced by an over whelming urge to kill them, just cause them pain.
And fear of losing a good guy, what makes a **** deserve a good guy, heck she doesn’t deserve anything more than a room in red light district. To get something good you should be deserve it.
Pranjal
you are a misogynist who doesn’t respect women.. you have not an iota of respect for your wife.
knowing wife’s premartial sexual behaviour doesn’t say that she doesn’t love her husband. it’s her decision to tell her guy or not..
Sulagna
why would you find this surprising or sad? if girls can fake their love, if they can lie knowing that they would never get caught or even if they get caught after marriage, nothing would happen. then why can not a guy think like that? i mean we everyone is same.and specially when they get hurt and feel cheated they does not think about right or wrong..
Sulagna you are not different.. just like Priyanshu. i would say worst than Priyanshu since he said this bcz his wife cheated on him. and you are being biased in your opinions so you are no better than others.
You are a plain feminist, firstly I am right about me getting another girl and she won’t get another guy in India is true, how many “divorced” women have you seen who got “happily” married again, one or two perhaps.
Secondly when girls lie it is for “greater good” so it is right, lets say I lie about my flings on my tours for the “greater good”, if I have them I will feel better that way I will treat her better. I am not “suggesting” that she won’t get any guys, I am implying that she won’t get any guys and it is true.
And I am not contradicting myself on the point that my love is decreasing every day, even if you love someone and after a while you find he lied to you about himself and is pursuing things which disrupt you. what will happen?
And me not being open minded, that is how I am everyone has his own merits and de-merits. My juniors are a bunch of very open minded people, one of them has a gf who was his colleague girl before. But they are not very educated nor they earn as much as me, they are picky about food, have low income etc.
I am not against pre martial relationships, I am against the thing the “1%” girls slaughter our lives. And why did she marry me, she still hadn’t recovered form her “past” but she like most of chicken hearted, selfish, CRUEL, good-for-nothing bunch of Indians wriggled out of the mess she created instead of standing up for it. If she had any ounce of self-respect then she would have told me the truth in our engagement period.
For my revenge I have got her ex transferred to a village through my friend and a demotion.
I seriously considered divorce but she just fills a bucket of tears when I said it, so I am to my second option, flings.
Really whoever had said in the sister article “Wife had sex before marriage” was right, it makes you fell damm good. I had one last night, I was like a bull after reading Charu’s last reply. For anyone in same situation try one, guaranteed to feel better.
As for the point of my marriage being blown up, you would have heard “A man who has nothing to loose, has everything to gain” in context of my sexual and married life it was blown up, for me my marriage is nothing more than an obligation to my family, to my wife’s family and to my wife. Reality is the more you bend to this world the more it bends you so be selfish like Charu and do what feels good to you.
And AGuy i searched the net but articles on letting go were for those who got cheated, I even read “surviving husband” one but it made me feel even worse.
priyanshu
i am not a feminist, my opinion was gender neutral. and by the way what is wrong with being gender neutral? at least we do things which are for everyone’s good like your wife.
neither your wife nor you can get a partner after divorce. rules are the same(almost) for both by the society. and your disagreement shows how ignorant you are.
if your love is not same after knowing about pre-martial affair of your wife then i would say you never loved her. so yes you are contradicting yourself.
seems you think very high of yourself.. she didn’t tell you before because she knew you are not man enough to forget.
revenge.. ??? for what? just because he had sex with your wife before marriage. feeling very strong.. ??:D
about your flings with other woman i would say you are not only sick but also weak person who can not even handle his wife sexual past before marriage. you should feel ashamed.. pervert
priyanshu
i agree with you on almost every points, except that cheating. if you are so against the cheating then why did you cheat her? you and your wife are on the same boat.
i would say it’s better to get divorce and not being in a marriage that is self destructing. you are not gaining anything in this marriage.
if you are so sympathetic towards her then forgive her. why are you cheating(she would know one day about it) and making her life more miserable?
Priyanshu,
Thanks for going through articles of “letting go” on my request :) After your introduction, I read surviving husband and also found it to be rather – “depressing and demotivating” !!
It is a tough place to be when you feel you have nothing to loose.
I am glad that your are feeling better. If you dont mind I am interested to know few things . If you are comfortable, do share with me/us answers to these few things. As I said, I don’t believe in right or wrong – only choices. Author also implies that wrong is justified if parental/social pressure is involved. So, if author does not mind, share the answers as a comment here, or if she does, reach me at my blog.
1. Though inclined to have it before, you haven’t had sex with another woman until now – what changed your mind ? ie. What was the trigger ?
2. What were your feelings just before having this sex ?
4. How has it changed you as a person – your beliefs , your ideologies etc?
5. How does your relationships with your wife , parents and friends change after this , if they do ?
6. What if now your wife takes revenge for this act – how will you feel ?
Dont reply to anything that you are not comfortable to. Remember its internet, its going to stay her for-ever, most probably. Also , trolls might pass judgmental comments – be emotionally ready for that.
These questions are not to help you, or anybody else.
Glad you to read the surviving husband, I was so angry after reading it, I wanted nothing more than to drag the guy’s wife to my village and kill her.
For Charu, I assure you I WILL get another girl after my divorce, because I have the two most important things for Indian arrange marriage system: Loads of money ( self earned ) and top notch degree ( from best B- tech college in India ). Surely my bio data had lost a lot of appeal but still it is good enough to get me another chick, as for my “wife” I also ASSURE you that she will not get another man in India, I won’t let it happen ;) And after my flings, I feel mighty good, and what are you thinking that I am fucking some black old aunty-prostitute in India, you are so wrong. Like I said before, I travel a lot, out of India….I may not be a man enough to forget her but I am improving my man skills now. It is a cruel world, I have learned it the hard way, Charu why aren’t you condemning my wife for lying, her lies are acceptable mine aren’t. As for anurag, thanks for standing up for me, and whatever I do, I am way above my wife’s level. I will divorce her eventually, but I have used some brain, I have hired a good lawyer, who is transferring all my assets as foreign liquidity, in short he is making sure that when we divorce my wife doesn’t get a penny, except for a meagre amount from my salary for just one year. I am no longer affected by her tears, there was a day, when she cried, I cried but not now.
For A guy’s Q/A
1) Trigger was her past which was affecting my present, I was starting to doubt her, has she just married so that she can divorce me and take my money. I had resigned, when I posted here, but after reading the “resourceful” comments on the sister article “Wife has had…”, I got the idea and when I saw Charu’s comment that I am less man because I couldn’t get any partners before I snapped, my mind was, hell if someone like her ex who is nothing compared to me can get someone, I definitely can so on my next tour I did it.
2) Anger loads of it, frustration, feeling of being cheated and apprehension.
3) It is a cruel world, there is no place for trust, I blindly trusted her before marriage but got clobbered. Be selfish, lie for the “greater good”, in short do what feels right to you without any consideration for others.
4) My feelings for my friends are same, I am much happy now than before, as for my family it is same too, my wife I hate her, and my wife’s family I still like those folks, they are kind, good natured and simple people. And for my hate for my wife, I blame her and her only, after marriage ( before I knew ) I loved her so much, ( from the day we married, I got her a small gift everyday for one month, every morning, and I took a leave on our one month anniversary and had a whole day for her, cooked for her { first time in my life } our “first time” was that night, I had also booked a overseas honeymoon for us ) exactly 8 days later the bomb was dropped on me. And I stopped “living” from that day, till my “first time” outside.
5) That’s a funny one, I would like to see what can she do, her ex is in different city, jobless. If she does take revenge, it won’t be good for her health, and she doesn’t want her family to relocate. In short, I am very sure she won’t do it, if she does, I will be angry, very very angry.
And I want to see her in pain now, so I have things planned for her, I will file for divorce, no money for her, my lawyer has made it a cheating case after I am free, she will know of her ex-husbands flings, and the detective report will be posted to her house.
And Charu, I did had some opportunities before marriage, but I had morals, and my state is not just because of her lie but also because of her interactions with her ex, I wanted no absolutely no contact between them, she could have left her job, I earn very well and her salary makes no difference to me,
As for being on the net, this isn’t even my real name, and most of my posts are from computers in hotels on my tours, so no worries. And I am more resistant now, I have become strong, I am no longer the soft, good natured, simple guy, so bring any comments on.
“I was so angry after reading it, I wanted nothing more than to drag the guy’s wife to my village and kill her.” Now we know how honour killings happen. I’m almost depressed to know honour killing is not merely a strange and rare phenomenon happening in remote villages – almost in a different world. It’s something highly educated, sophisticated people just like me and the readers of this site would do if only they could get away with it. It’s a sad, sad discovery for me.
Priyanshu,
Thanks for answering my questions.
Sulagna,
I thought, you knew that people will do anything if they can get away with it ! The wife, the husband, the wife’s parents, the husband’s parents – they will do anything if they go unpunished by law and society :P
I am surprised that you find it surprising. As I said earlier, people concept of morality is only – what majority believes in. Including yours and mines ! You follow a majority of “highly educated, sophisticated people of India” – other people follow different kind of majority.
So, cheer up :) Life is not fair. And what you believe is fair, is not fair either ;)
Priyanshu
Sulagna is right, educated people like you are not different from rapist from 16th december nirbhaya rape case. you wanted to killed her while she loved you, cared about you. guys like you should be in jail, at least your wife will be alive.
seems you decided to divorce her, i fail to understand the a proper reason behind it. not only this you want to destroy her future life. you are a monster, you can never see others happy, a sadist.
you hated cheating and still you cheated your wife. isn’t it irony? however she never cheated on you, whatever happened was before your marriage.
why would i condemned her? she didn’t do anything wrong. whatever she did was before marriage and telling you about it was her decision. you can not say that she lied. she distanced herslf from her ex bf. it’s enough reason to praise her loyality for you.
my comments instigated you to take these kind of cowardice steps is nonsense. why don’t you accept that you wanted an easy exit for your flings to happen.
you had morals, seriously!!?? what has morals to do with sex.
her being in contact with her ex bf is part of her life. you can not dictate it. neither you can restrict her nor her interaction with her ex..
i pray to god that sanity would prevail..
Priyanshu
it’s good that you have decided something rather than being in a non decisive state. if you don’t want to forgive then i would say that be careful.
as you know that getting a divorce is very in INDIA. judiciary always see us like we are monsters. you need to collect strong evidence against her before you file divorce case. i am sure you know how girls and their parents use domestic violence law and dowry law..
For guy who asked about detective agency, its Veteran detectives. Price and on a comment below by some another chap.
For anurags comment, I WANT to make her life miserable, I want to show her hell now and she will see it.
As for @loveinindia’s “almost depressed” state, Have you read the surviving husband. his wife cheated on guy when she was pregnant, she mentally abused him during the process by using her pregnancy as cover, she had unprotected sex with her OM, after her husband found out he tried to let go and he describes the process in a blog, after he was trough the “letting go” thing he found out that she cheated on him AGAIN and left her husband with her children for her OM. That devil witch is a stain on earth, she deserves to die.
AGuy
yeah.. you are right about girls who faced everything and thinks the arranged guy is good for her future. they will lie or speak truth. if they speak truth chances are she would get rejected. so they lie.. and @sulgana conveniently choose not to talk about it.
hey sulgana what about those girls(and there are plenty) who choose arrange marriage bcoz they got good deals. we know that girls go for financial security first. what would you say about them girls choose arrange marriage over their love because luxury. i know man friends of mine who deserted their well to do bf’s to settle with “well settled” guy and of course there was not honesty..
AGuy you should have wrote the article. because sulgana just wrote a piece of extended crap from earlier piece of article..
It is a big issue in today’s time, even though almost 95% girls use some brain cells and stay virgin, the rest trap a guy. Speaking on correct terms the girl should willingly come forward and tell if they have some self respect left.
But practically these type will not follow it. So the guy should ask too and if she lies to him and he finds after marriage he should divorce her and tell her family the reasons clearly so you are not at fault, societal things can be dealt eventually but living with such a women for lifetime will destroy your true self.
I mean really why jump on sex? I am 25 years old my gf is same, we are together for 1.5 years but we have only gone as far as lip locking and plan to keep it that way till our marriage. We will get married in 2-3 years and being humans, we are different from animals unlike them we can resist and not foolishly succumb to our primal instincts. No sex makes me feel that our relationship is true and right. No “love-making” doesn’t make our love any less that couples who do it.
One has whole life for sex so use some brain. Why can’t people understand such simple thing. In most cases of the 5% girls, they don’t marry “the guy” and lie to some innocent person and blast his and her life. Why for some sex. Burning up your entire life for 1-2 years of fun.
Now regarding to the thing of being forced to marry someone else, again it comes back to using your mind. Everyone knows whether the person they are trying to cultivate relationship will be accepted by his/her parents and family, if one doesn’t know it go back to school. So why not stop the relationship before it turns serious if the other person won’t be accepted by your family or if you really like the person, chuck out your parents and family and run away etc. But this is rare in modern cases, in these the guy dumps the girl, who then tries to cover up her mistakes by lying and shamelessly butchers someone else’s life.
I and my gf know that our families will accept our decision.
A big reason why I won’t have sex with my gf is that even if I break up with my gf ( which is next to impossible ), I will be a part of her life which she won’t regret in the future, I won’t be the cause of her martial problems, I won’t be someone who she will loathe in future. I always want to be the person in her life who whenever she remembers is with a happy face and probably a smile. This is true love not sex.
Priyanshu,
“Yes if you get in such a situation letting go is the only way, ”
I am not saying letting go is the only way, I am saying letting go is important for your own emotional well being. It has nothing to do with your wife in anyway.
If you want to understand about “letting go” , please search on internet. It may help you.
Regarding, private detectives – yep, one way to go. Considering parents also “hire” relatives and friends to use their sources and find out about the guy or girl. Instead you can hire professionals. Author, also feels that arrange marriage is a risk. Then detectives are proffesional “risk analysts” !
But somehow, using private detectives dont seem right approach to me. I dont know why. But that’s just me. Other readers ( and may be author ) can share on this point.
Aayush
You have made a very valid point :)
If a guy wants to fulfill his carnal desires, even after knowing that it might create problems for girl in future – then he is not in love at all. Girls’ fathers need to tell this to them, so that they can make a “knowledge choice” when it comes to sex.
One way is making out before marriage during the engagement period, then you can know the fact before marriage. If she is not then you can break the engagement. It is rare that she will put legal charges on you as it means announcing the ” truth” to society. Girls Will Lie no matter how you ask.
Anurag,
You are welcome :) But I disagree that I should have wrote this article. I like this article. You see, each author brings out its own viewpoint, and different viewpoints give you a chance to understand other people better. If you wanna read my viewpoint, I am sharing my own views in detail on my blog.
Look, my “problem” is I try to state facts – some of which author may not like, some which I myself dont like, some which you also might not like or disagree with
So, I will be honest with you – and tell you few things in a blunt and non-counsellor way.
1. Unless you are ready to commit yourself in bringing a big social change, and make all the girls understand that lying is not justified , commenting here about girls wont help you , author or other readers. I am not discouraging you to post about the girls’ behaviour .Do bring out your views, but do not be mistaken that it will help you in a positive way. ( And in case, you are committed to bring that change, get in touch with me on my blog , sharing your views on how you can do that – I will help you in anyway I can :) )
2. Counselor is posting advises as per her experiences in these situations. I personally, agree with some – and disagree with others. You also can agree/disagree- without blaming the author in anyway :)
3. It is unreasonable to expect author to reply back on all comments. Personally, I am hoping that author will read these comments and reply back with another post with answers to the most common asked questions / concerns. She may or may not! I hope she does :)
Anurag, understand a general rule, if you keep on complaining, people will not be interested in helping you or listening to your view points.
Respect other people views, post your own views with a calm mind – and you will find answers that you are looking for.
AUTHOR this is for you . Readers (including me ) may not understand the terms ‘let-go’ , ‘acceptance’, ‘forgiving’ , and ‘past’ as you might want to convey. If thats the case, please have a post about these things , it might help readers :)
PS: Anurag, I also personally know 3 girls, who dumped their “love” for a more financially viable choice :) see, I am not running away from the point that you raised. But tell me, is this helpful to you in any positive way ? Does your anger feels more justified now ? Will that justification help you ? If the answer is yes, internet and movies are filled with such cases. you might wanna read them too. If not, spend your energy in figuring out what will help you
( Here, I have assumed that you are looking for some kind of help or answers. Please let me know if that’s not the case )
AGuy
i found your comments more balanced than Sulagna, yeah you are right about knowing different viewpoints, so i can say her piece of article was good at some extent. however i think she doesn’t have a balance point of view. she contradicted herself and didn’t talk about those aspects which were not convenient for her. sorry to say but Sulagna also seems extremely gender biased(if you will read her comments you would know).. she is a strong advocate for love marriages and doesn’t favor arranged marriages. but still advice some very weird options(like how not to have baby in a suffocating marriage, advocating to be in a loveless marriage rather than suggesting person to take a divorce)..
in many comments she hinted directly that it is the result of arranged marriage. not in a single comment she talked about the selfishness or what should i say materialistic choice of the girl. reading her comments made me feel that in INDIA arranged marriages are forced marriages. and certainly that is not the case(i am from middle class and i saw many alliances happened only with consent of the girl), but she never took this point in her comments until last comment where she agreed with you.she always said lying is a bad thing with “if” and “but”. like she said theoriticaly this is right but practically not on filmsy grounds. so she is encouraging people to lie..
but now i think she is doing her job like counselors do without going to the root cause. i liked her idea of giving the list, but she chose to exclude those girls who go for arrange marriage even if they have boyfriends, for luxury and these kinds of girls are in abundance out there.
i never said you should not forgive or let go, but the other person should be willing and honest.
and yes i am angry with people, just because you are a male you can not be labelled as wrong. there are so many similarity between posted comments and real life
“So in this case unless the guy had asked this question specifically, she had no way of knowing how particular he was about this issue.” then you say “How easy do you think it would be for her family to get a guy for her subsequently?” let’s face the truth, nearly every guy in India wants, expects and rightfully assumes that their would-be-wife is virgin and every sane girl knows it too. Girls lie because they get selfish, they are ashamed of their actions, they are ashamed of themselves. They know no guy will willingly accept them with their past. They are wrong to a certain degree. And the point that every body knows who can be accepted by their family is true. Do not fall in love with person who wont be accepted or if you then grow some backbone and run away. Now please dont give financial excuse for not being able to run away.
No asking, begging etc. will get you truth, if a guy gets with one of these no matter he will feel bad, almost 95% girls are virgin, if you can get one of these then why take the rest 5%.
Best and foolproof way is Private Detectives. They are good as mentioned by Priyanshu they even get the school buissness. And contrary to popular beleif they dont ask questions from frinds of the girl, she wont know.
Three years back when I had finally met a girl for marriage, I was suspicious so I used then and Bingo! She had done it all and had now undergone hymenoplasty. I rejected her. Now I am married. Asking will make you feel worse after you discover the truth after marriage.
What an impractical set of comments by you guys, Letting go is the best option, yes it is a blow to your self-confidence, male esteem etc. but as Sulagna has said it is the ONLY practical option. Why are you targeting her ? She didn’t got paid by wife of the guy who asked this question ?
I am in the same situation but, cheating lets face it in India you cannot have an affair with anyone who knows you are married it is very very rare. And prostitutes, I cannot disgrace myself to that extreme level of selfishness whatsoever be the reason. Many are saying that wife who lied so she had no self-respect, by sinking to such a low level of sex relationship with a prostitute you are not making milestones in self-respect.
But I disagree that girl should not tell, whatever be the cultural reasons, the girl knew about the reasons before doing it. Didn’t she, that same applies to the thing that parents not allowing her to marry the guy of her choice, she knew who will be accepted by her family and who wouldn’t.
If we look at the scenario almost 80% couples who “do it” break up, the guy is free you check him after 5 years, he will be happy but if you see the girls almost 90% of them lie and nearly 100% get caught at some point or the other, there are cases of guys finding out even 12 years after marriage. And we guys take it as cheating, I had spent a lot of my whole nights on my PC looking for articles and the things I felt were parallel to what a cheated male feels.
You definitely cannot be as open with your wife as a normal couple, there is always a “block” that holds you back. As for the mental things the more you focus on this the more they grow. The issue starts to fade after time, it is never “vanished” but it fades.
My advice, STOP focusing on it, your wife “has” to tell you the truth to go even a step ahead, ask what you want to know in a single run, instead asking randomly it spoils your day. After you have asked don’t bring it up ever not in fights etc. If you are planning to use the info to get a upper hand, don’t. It will be difficult but it is best way. And No-Contact policy with the ex, like Jaspreet said if you remain in contact, he holds the reign of your marriage he can break it whenever he wants. It is impossible to resist asking the ex for “more” once he starts giving you the preamble of their relationship. And wife has to do a lot, if she is someone like who just says “Past is past forget it, my past doesn’t mean I will cheat on you” and thinks she is done kick her out NOW, she is good “girlfriend” but an awful “wife”. Sorry to say this but if your wife did “it” in school days you should divorce her, she is definitely not worth it, it is best way.
And have realistic expectations from your marriage, if you are dreaming of a normal love life, throw it out but that doesn’t mean you will hate each other for life, just it won’t be “there”.
For Sulagna great article except “the-girl-is-not-entirely-wrong-in-lying” part and a big thing missing: LET GO ONLY IF YOUR WIFE IS WORTH IT else divorce.
Anon2
i didn’t understand why letting go is the only solution..!!
and Sulagna is being targeted for giving useless advices, you know as you mentioned in last lines of your comment.
there are few guys who are supporting cheating they want an eye for an eye and i consider it wrong. yeah these kind of suggestions shows their immaturity maybe…
i agree with what you said in last three para except one thing, i would say one should not be in a loveless marriage just for the sake of society or family.
There are many thing “that should not be” but they happen, I shouldn’t have to be lied in the first place. I don’t how you think but divorce has a huge social stigma, you cannot divorce. Less than 1% marriages in India end up as divorce, it is not US where 50% end as divorce so every second adult has had a divorce.
And “LOVE” goes out of your life and girl’s life the minute she lies about her past, you eventually discover it and one in a million guys in India accept it, rest like me squabble around trying to just live their lives peacefully. After divorce, you will be in a much worse situation:
1) Society treats you like an alien.
2) You won’t be able to marry anyone who is not himself/herself is a divorcee/widow and second marriages aren’t very acceptable either nor successful.
3) Also the number of divorcees is very bleak so low chances of finding one.
4) Our laws are anti-divorcee, anti-male it takes years to get divorcee which period is living hell, almost 6-7 years, my lawyer showed me a case when case dragged for 13 years.
Simply, divorce won’t help you but it will surely increase your problems a lot.
I cannot understand why we are adopting American system, it won’t work here.
They have a capitalist economy, they are a super power, they have a decent population and frankly even if they don’t do anything all those corporate headquarters will keep them running. Pre martial sex etc, is a luxurious way of life, which India cannot afford, 1/3 of our population is below poverty line that is almost equal to their total population.
Anon2
you are talking like men are responsible for break ups and cheating.. and even if couples broke up their respective future partners have right to know the truth. you can not say it’s okay to lie because it seems this is what you are implying. if someone in marriage or going before marriage asks a question he/she has right to know the truth. and here girls conveniently lie..
“squabble around trying to just live peacefully” can’t be the goal for life. we don’t get a life to live it like we are suffocating. and it’s better to fight a divorce case for “13 years” rather than being with a dishonest wife for life..
Pre martial virginity is one’s own criteria which is a very sensitive topic for a girl. No amount of asking will get you truth especially if she is of the “naughty” type. But the fact she is not telling about it has its own merits, telling the truth ( if she has a past ) will mean outright rejection and subsequently family torture etc.
Best way to check is using private detectives, it is not morally wrong or right. In earlier days when life was simple, neighbours, friends knew it all. But the modern world requires serious investigation. This is not at all uncommon { Google “India’s ‘wedding detectives’ enjoy booming trade” }, you will get the truth one day better is to get before marriage and back off before its too late. The agency will take at most 50 days and you have the full report, the cost is not to high either compared to what you get.
The agency charges from 30000-55000 INR depending on what you want to be investigated. Most common is past relationships, it takes 45000 INR, 15000 INR before and 30000 INR after. Not only grooms but brides and their families also use it to check on past relationships and mother in law. But one should do it carefully, after you get the report read it to your minds fill and then burn it, keeping a hard/soft copy will be disastrous in your would-be sees it.
Or the other free ways I have added as a link,
There should be a big advertisement
“Protect yourself from sluts”……………….
Issued in Public Interest By “World’s un luckiest guys”
Pranjal
calling girls who has sex before marriage shows the disrespect you give to them for no valid reason. no sane person would agree with you.
Traditional arranged marriages, where people make a decision of a lifetime on the basis of a few meetings without a degree of emotional (& physical) intimacy require an enormous leap of faith & capacity to trust. Shared values (including important things like sex, money, religiousness, cultural values, morality) & trust are necessary to make this happen.
The idea of traditional arranged marriage & pre-marital sex are incompatible. When one has had a relationship in the past, why not attempt another to see if that leads to marriage? It seems quite disingenuous to suddenly switch to a method that is far more conservative when you’ve already made an important non-conservative choice prior in your life.
Pre-marital sex is a rubicon that demonstrates that you have a different perspective and approach to finding your partner. You shouldn’t then fall back on to a process which values sexual conservatism and relies on very little info to match two people (because it assumes that the two people share the same cultural values and hence are very similar & compatible).
It is of course true, that large numbers of Indians might not accept your choice, but as an adult you should be aware of the consequences of your actions and be willing to face them. As long as no one harms or endangers you (which is certainly the case in urban India), you shouldn’t be concerned with people’s acceptance of your actions. That is their personal choice and you can’t impose any more than they can. I’m sure in a country of 1.2 billion, you’ll find some men (& women) who accept you for who you are. But it seems incredibly dishonest and hypocritical to lie about yourself and misrepresent yourself just to have access to a larger pool of suitors. One has to live independently, on the basis of one’s choices, without shame if one seeks to make different choices. The option given here of listing multiple deal-breakers and asking the girl for a rejection seems to be too considerate but might work. It would be much better to ask up front, or have a background check done (via a detective agency). It’s sad and seems quite cold but unfortunately might be the best way to find facts.
Legally speaking about this situation if a girl/guy lies about pre martial sex when a prospective match asks, then after marriage the match can file that he/she cheated on you or committed fraud for getting your consent for marriage suit may/may not be enough to get your marriage annulled, Indian judiciary is sucking @@$HOLE$ is this case, they won’t do anything much. It depends on your marriage, for ex. if wife has had sex before marriage and she cries a lot in court and her family also joins, the judge will see 1) Crying woman ( -100 for you ) 2) Crying helpless father and mother ( -50 for you ) and then before you know it you will be thwarted by that stuck up oldie and you have to live with her for rest of your life.
Now is the good part ;)
But after the HC ruled out that pre martial sex is equivalent to marriage, so if someone has sex with bf/gf now, breaks up and lies to match, the match can file a for a big no. of lawsuits, breach of trust, bigamy, public defamation etc. the second one will get you divorced instantly, end the the liar in jail and no money division for sure, but the trick in it is to gather good evidence of past sex, private detectives will be your cup of tea, you can hire multiple of them at same time and pay them more for an intensive report.
On a note : For guys in such situation our rational mind takes a back seat and our male ego drives us, if you know that your spouse has had pre martial sex or have very strong suspicion ask them, they have to be honest now, if a girl honestly tells her past you shouldn’t hold it against her, she is one you can get a happy marriage. As the author has said in the other article just ask the name, span of relationship and get a promise for no contact with ex. Then bury this forever you will be happy. And if she still lies or is hiding the facts no matter whatsoever be the reason, leave her, divorce is better than to remain married to such a person, such people are burden on earth.
A note for Charu, even though your views are commendable but you should know the fact that India is not as modern as you want it, it is changing but slowly, a similar example. I want to add: First paper currency was started in China in 800 AD, it was modern but it was forced modernism it didn’t fit in the country, nevertheless the results were disastrous, paper currency do came but later similarly trying to force western views won’t do any good. You are wrong in defaming guys who are particular about this issue.
LGuy
it is not modernity in thinking, it’s just thinking right. if a girl lie about her pre martial relationship it’s for greater cause. she lies to save her marriage and family, so it doesn’t suggest wrongdoing on her part. it’s sad that guys like you don’t want to see greater goods and refuses to accept your girls love..
First of all, I am not married nor looking for any match, my comments just show my experience, I work for a law firm and handle divorce cases.
No one can define right or wrong in absolute terms, what may be right for you may be wrong for someone else etc. If a girl lies it is for her good, not greater good. If she tells the truth most guys will just close the relationship and walk away nothing more. This is for the greater good.
A persons sexual past matters, it is a psychological , biological thing it won’t change, you can’t accept it then leave the person. No need to condemn him/her. And don’t think it is just guys, there are cases when the tables are turned.
And honesty should be part of any serious relationship irrespective of greater good etc.
Wow! A very matured way to think about this. Being a girl, i totally agree to you views. Yet I believe that if a virgin guy expects his girl too to be a virgin, he should not be seen as a villain. For such guys you have given a really very smart way to tackle this issue!Long live this blog :)
Lakshmi
i agree that if a virgin guy expects a virgin girl he should not be seen as a villain. but i think it’s extremely weird and backward thinking to expect virginity from your spouse.. and if the guy doesn’t get the “virgin” girl he should not be weirdo like we are seeing in above comments..
Alright Charu, what should be the reaction of a guy who is a virgin when he gets to know that his wife is not virgin, even when he calmly and clearly asked her about it with a promise to keep it secret even if the deal is called off. Shouldn’t he be angry that he was wrongfully married to someone who provided him incorrect facts about things crucial to him in determining her as his life partner ? How can he trust that person even again, trust once broken is not easily repaired even it is patched up, there is always a knot, why blame the guy for this ?
Lakshmi
being a girl, one expect from you that you would not look down upon a girl for having sex with someone. seeking virginity(even by a virgin guy) cast the girl as an object..
“seeking virginity (even by a virgin guy) cast the girl as an object..” first do explain how does it cast the girl as object ? even it it does, then what about the fact when girls cast as objects whose quality is determined by college degree and quantity by pay check. I still remember between my engagement period and marriage, I found a list of guys who had approached her for marriage and it was sorted out on salary and I was on top.
In Indian context pre martial sex of one partner is taken as cheating.
This argument is supported by facts, the signs and symptoms are identical to cheating scenario.
Anger, betrayal, sadness, frustration, urge to cheat, loss of respect for spouse, loss of self confidence, feeling of inferiority etc.
So one should tell, and presently pre martial sex is equal to marriage so one should definitely tell about their past spouse ;) ;) doesn’t she ?
I dont usually poke my nose by writing such comments, but seeing the adverse comments by feminist pigs here – i am forced to do this..
Which is modern ? Sleeping with someone before marriage and lying it to your prospective groom ? Haven’t we evolved from those stages where we had sex just because we had the instinct – like animals ? I thought we are more evolved now… Seeing comments from Charu, Isha and Sulagna – i only felt we are going backwards..
If you dont have the capability to control your urges, why the hell do you even want a marriage ? You are AN ITEM the moment you spread your legs for someone who is not your husband (pre marital included)… How can an item generate sympathy and respect ? You are the ones who “objectified” yourself by being a item just for the simple reason that you were unable to control your self – while 90% of the girls in this country are sane and could learn to control their urges… THose who indulge in premarital sex – it Shows their poor upbringing – their parents have to hang their heads down in shame. Men view such females as object who viewed themselves as objects in bed before marriage?
Indian scenario is very different. Even in USA (have travelled extensively) – it is not like every girl is a whore… Many of them CHOOSE to stay virgins till they MARRY the guy of their dreams.. And men respect that and stays a virgin too… Tell me who doesnt want a virgin wife ? Everyone wants a chaste woman !!!!
There is nothing modern or cool about pre-marital sex.. It is the most disgusting thing girls every crave for – and it is safe to stay away from such sex monging creatures – who had spread their legs at the slightest provocation… They CANNOT BE TRUSTED – are NOT FIT FOR LEADING A FAMILY…. How can you tell your children that “your mom was a whore who slept with people before she married me” ? What would happen if the children get to know of their mom’s past affairs through some channel when they are in their adulthood – wont it be devastating for them ? How would the child feel if they get to know if their mom had been a prostitute (purely for the craving of sex) and had provided free service to another guy ? I am sorry – prostitution is the right word for pre-marital sex … The child while he was an infant will suck the same nipple for milk that was sucked by an asshole few years back – for pleasure! We respect sex, love and woman… But we dont respect a woman who has willingly served as a free prostitute… We celebrate womanhood – as long as she has been a woman..
If you do indulge be prepared to face to consequence.. THere is no post without responsibility… If I am getting paid to do my job, i need to bear the responsibility for my job.. I dont get paid simply… SO if you indulge then do pay the price for the consequence…
These feminists here are self centered creatures (though i like to call names here, but for the sense of decency i call them creatures) who care only about them- not about anything… Those who indulge in premarital sex – (both sexes included), they just want to tantalize their organs THERE IS NOT LOVE INVOLVED EVER – they seek sex like a dog seeking food on the streets… But want to marry someone who could would build an expensive kennel for them… How can this street dogs wish to stay in these expensive kennels… I am not equating woman with dogs for your kind info – real woman (virgin, chaste and pious) is a Goddess… This is just a metaphor for your reference.. But yes you can take that street dog reference as real – no that is not a metaphor..
We treat woman with utmost respect but to qualify to that position you need be a woman who could carry herself as a woman – not as a “willing” prostitute who had rendered free services to her “ex”. You cannot have the cake and eat it too..
In my college, there was a girl – a beautiful girl – who choose to stay a virgin for her future husband… ALL OF US respect her – we would be her servants.. I remember getting groceries for her when she was staying with her aunt… We dont mind washing the feet of such pious and virtuous woman who celebrate womanhood…
Ours is a country which WORSHIPS woman… We have temples for woman.. Woman is goddess… Innocence, Intelligence, Chastity and Virginity defines a woman…. The one who is not a virgin at the time of marriage is not a woman at all… “It” deserves no respect.. “It” is an item which men should ignore and stay away from… “It” is not worthy of our respect or not worthy of being a mother… “It” cannot be married and any fool who is marrying “it” knowing about “it” doesnt deserve any respect either…
Sorry for the strongly worded statements… But looking at the insane and feminist response from Charu – which essentially says – “yes a woman only wants sex.. but she needs to be protected by the man she marries so that she can continue having sex with whoever she wants – and if the man confronts her for this – he is a narrow minded chauvinist” – I think these words that I typed are not strong enough…
Why dont you do India a favor and leave our divine country instead of sitting here and shouting alone ? The rest 90% of the girls are not with you people anyway..